Legislature(2001 - 2002)
05/01/2002 03:42 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
May 1, 2002
3:42 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator John Torgerson, Chair
Senator Gary Wilken, Vice Chair
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Ben Stevens
Senator Kim Elton
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Rick Halford
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearings
Board of Game
Bruce Baker
Caleb Pungowiyi
Michelle Sparck
George Matz
J. Dana Pruhs
WITNESS REGISTER
Mr. Carl Rosier, Vice President
Alaska Outdoor Council
POB 73902
Fairbanks AK 99707
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Pruhs' nomination. No comment
on others.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-24, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN JOHN TORGERSON called the Senate Resources Committee
meeting to order at 3:42 p.m. and announced the committee would
take up the Board of Game confirmation hearings. He asked Mr.
Bruce Baker, the first nominee, how many years he was appointed
for.
MR. BRUCE BAKER said he has been an Alaskan resident for over 30
years and most of his career has been dedicated to managing
habitats that are essential for sustainable game populations. He
retired from ADF&G 10 years ago and is now a natural resource
consultant on subjects that don't come before the Board of Game.
He was with ADF&G for 11 years and, before that, served as a
natural resource policy specialist under Governor Jay Hammond. He
is an active hunter and recognizes trapping as a legitimate use
of game. He has the time to dedicate to board responsibilities
and to help the public participate in the Board's decisionmaking
process.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked again how long his appointment is for.
MR. BAKER replied three years.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if he would reverse the current Board policy
of elk extermination in Southeast Alaska.
MR. BAKER said he didn't know the Board had made that decision.
SENATOR TAYLOR said the Board made it last year in October or
November. It provided that a person could kill any elk,
regardless of sex or age, with a regular hunting license, any
place in Southeast Alaska except on Ellen (ph) and Zarembo
Islands. He stated, "It is a policy of extermination that we
don't have in any other specie in the state."
MR. BAKER said he is familiar with the situation. He remarked the
way he would vote on a proposal now would probably not help the
legal defensibility of any future Board decision on a proposal,
but he would be open minded about it from the standpoint of a
board member.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked how he would implement the intensive game
management policies that were set by this legislature.
MR. BAKER replied that his understanding of the regulations is
that in implementing the policy in Title 16, the Board must
consider eight criteria when establishing population and harvest
objectives for each big game prey population identified and that
would be done in a way that is consistent with maintaining near
maximum sustainable yields. One of the criteria, for example, is
the cost feasibility and potential effectiveness of possible
management actions. He added:
I am prepared to work as a board member to apply those
and other criteria that are in the Intensive Management
Act and associated regulations in as an objective a
manner as I can and one of the things that's very
convenient about the whole board process is that all
proposals come - not all - some are statewide and some
are region wide, but most of the ones that are detailed
come in on a game management unit or a game management
subunit basis and some of these issues are hard for all
of us including you folks to get our arms around and
are very controversial. To me the best way to deal with
sticky issues is to break them down into manageable
pieces and I think the game management unit or the
subunit affords a very good opportunity to be just
that. I am prepared to work with other board members,
advisory committees and the public at large in
implementing intensive management just as I am other
provisions of the statutes that have to do with
predator control.
SENATOR ELTON asked, in regard to intensive game management and
predator control, Mr. Baker's thoughts on communicating across
some of the barriers raised over predator control between user
groups and elements of government, and between the political
people, policy people, biologists, etc. in different parts of
Alaska.
MR. BAKER said he would start at the user level and he believes
there is a lot of opportunity for board members to help user
groups work together. He used the example of the Fairbanks
meeting in March on Unit 19. The Board of Game and ADF&G work
with whoever is governor at the time. His understanding after
talking with the Department of Law is that the Board has the
authority to promulgate regulations on seasons and bag limits and
methods and means. It also has the authority to authorize the
department to do certain things such as predator control. The
Board does not have the authority to place fiscal commitments
upon the department or administratively direct it to do
something. He noted, "There's always going to be that legal
separation in authorities and responsibilities between… the Board
and the Administration." This doesn't mean there can't be good
communication between the two and ADF&G does a tremendous job of
providing biological information to the Board.
SENATOR WILKEN thanked him for coming by his office for a visit
two months ago and said he was impressed. He asked if Mr. Baker
had been able to have the conversation with the Alaska Outdoor
Council (AOC) that they talked about and whether the AOC would
support his nomination.
MR. BAKER said he talked with AOC and they generally either
support an appointee, decide not to oppose an appointee or oppose
an appointee. He is keeping communications open with them when it
seems appropriate to do so.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she comes from an area that's very dependent
upon trapping and she received a request that he not be confirmed
because he is a hunter and is opposed to the use of the foot-hold
trap. She asked him to respond.
MR. BAKER replied that he is supportive of trapping methods that,
in a perfect world, would meet three criteria: they are
economical; efficient; and dispatch an animal as quickly as
possible. But, it's not a perfect world. Trapping conditions vary
with the species, the trap set, the weather, how soon you can get
back out to the line, etc. He feels trappers are at least
concerned about their public image as the rest of us are. Most of
them would welcome the opportunity to try out a new method if it
met those three criteria.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if it is fair to say that he is not opposed
to foot-hold traps.
MR. BAKER replied that he is not opposed to them. If there were a
better way, he would look at it.
SENATOR LINCOLN commented that there are two letters of
opposition in her folder. The other one asked her not to appoint
him, but it was from Maryland and she is ignoring that one.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON thanked Mr. Baker for testifying and said they
would next hear from Caleb Pungowiyi who was calling in from
Kotzebue.
MR. CALEB PUNGOWIYI said he grew up hunting and trapping in
Alaska. He truly believes in balancing the uses of game.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked how long he was appointed to serve.
MR. PUNGOWIYI replied that he was appointed for three years.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she had known Caleb for many years and can
honestly say that he is one of the most honest, beautiful people
that she has ever known and he'll be an asset to the Board and
Alaska.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON thanked him for his testimony and said they
would talk to Michelle Sparck next.
MS. MICHELLE SPARCK said she lives and works in Bethel and was
born in Anchorage. She attended college outside of Alaska, but
has spent all of professional life working on various Alaska
issues, mostly natural resource issues related to public domain.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON thanked her for joining the committee this
afternoon and said they would hear from George Matz next. He
asked Mr. Matz if his term was for three years.
MR. MATZ replied that he lives in Anchorage and was appointed
last May for three years, of which he has served about a year
already. The reasons he thinks he is qualified to serve on the
Board of Game are:
Alaska's wildlife is very important to me as it is for
most Alaskans. I am very interested in all aspects of
wildlife whether that be hunting, wildlife observation
or just reading about the activities or the science of
wildlife management. I believe in living close to the
land. My wife and I are avid consumptive users. I hunt
fish, dig clams and pick berries. As a citizen, I feel
obligated to contribute to the better management of
publicly owned natural resources. I have lived in three
regions of the state over my 26 years of residency in
Alaska and have traveled throughout most of the state
and am familiar with the diverse natural and cultural
resources of this state. I have a variety of academic
and work experience that brings a new perspective to
the Board. In the private sector, I have been involved
in the marketing of scientific instrumentation and know
how to put together a plan and carry it out. In the
public sector, I have been involved in the development
of state budgets and policy-making. In the non-profit
sector, I have worked with the public on a number of
wildlife conservation issues. In short, I don't fit
into any of typical stereotypes. My diversity of
experience gives me the background that is needed to
understand the needs and desires of different user
groups. My approach is to reach consensus with most
user groups rather than to represent any particular
point of view.
Four years ago he saw the need to provide the residents of
Anchorage and the Kenai Peninsula with better information
regarding the status of brown bears on the Kenai Peninsula.
Consequently, he created a Kenai Brown Bear festival and brought
together a number of experts for the event, which was a success,
and was held again the next year in Anchorage. He had information
from the Bear Forum to hand out to the committee.
When he was appointed to the Board of Game, he was asked to form
and head up an advisory committee to consider sea duck issues in
the Kachemak Bay area. He asked eight local residents to serve on
the committee, each representing a different user group. The
committee just finished its fourth meeting and, despite the
diversity of views, was able to reach complete consensus on each
recommendation.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON commented that he was not a big fan of the
brown bear takeover forums, the reason being there was no
biological reason for it. He remarked:
The bear population was up; the numbers were not down.
There's not a lot of hunting allowed - this is on the
Kenai Peninsula. They have a certain number of
incidental kills of about 30 or 40 a year or something
like that. The spin-off of that was that we now have to
go through ADF&G and they tried to make an endangered
species out of the brown bear the same thing they did
with the wolf down in Southeastern - saying that the
Kenai Peninsula specie was its own specie and
endangered because they didn't interbreed with the rest
of the state, which it took a lot of money to prove
wrong…
He said this has just thrown another hurdle in front of the
logging and other industries down there before they can get
permits. When a five-mile pipeline was put in recently by an oil
company, instead of letting them run it through the trees, they
made them run it down in the swamp because they were afraid it
would disturb some habitat for a brown bear.
SENATOR WILKEN asked Mr. Matz when he was employed by OMB.
MR. MATZ replied that he started in 1979 and worked through 1986.
SENATOR WILKEN asked whom he was a legislative aide for.
MR. MATZ replied Joe Josephson and Vic Fischer.
SENATOR WILKEN asked what years he worked for them.
MR. MATZ replied that it was 1976 - 1979.
SENATOR LINCOLN said Mr. Matz was quoted in another e-mail to
say, "According to ADF&G survey's, wildlife viewers are willing
to pay on average about $309 - $417 each to see wolves, which is
about the price that the trapper would get for a pelt." She asked
if that was a true quote.
MR. MATZ replied that it was from a letter to another board
member about the buffer zone near Denali Park. He said he
sometimes looks at things from an economic standpoint. The value
of wildlife viewing was much greater for the Toklat pack than it
was in terms of the loss to trapping, because the buffer zone
allowed trapping but not trapping of wolves. That amounted to one
trapper in the area. On the other hand, several thousand people
saw that wolf pack and he thought that value was worth a lot
more.
SENATOR LINCOLN said the concern in her area is the belief that
it is the wolf that reduces the population of moose, which is
food for the table. It has nothing to do with the value of taking
a picture of the wolf. She is glad that he clarified that it was
just for the Toklat pack and asked his position on predator
control.
MR. MATZ replied that it is a management tool. There are
situations where it makes sense, but it's complicated to work it
out. It has to be based on good science. He thought the Toklat
wolves have a high value because so many people see them. You
couldn't assign the same value to another pack 100 miles away
because it doesn't have the same viewing value.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked, if it had a high viewing value, whether he
would place a higher value on viewing than having meat on the
table.
MR. MATZ said he wouldn't put viewing over eating, but he
wouldn't combine them like that.
SENATOR LINCOLN said good science is needed, but some things have
been absolutely studied to death. She asked him to describe good
science.
MR. MATZ replied that in terms of predator control, good science
falls on both sides of the fence:
You have to be specific to the situation. Science
doesn't come up with any magic answers. I think what
science does is essentially limits the options in terms
of having options that are more likely to work.
He said you set goals and use them to set up the type of science
and field work you need and then test to whether or not you are
achieving that.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON thanked Mr. Matz for joining the committee and
announced Mr. Dana Pruhs was next. He asked how many months he
had left to serve.
MR. DANA PRUHS replied that he has 11 months left. He said he was
born in Fairbanks and has lived in Anchorage since 1985. His
resume listed his jobs and he has always been a consumptive user
and values the state's natural resources and the opportunity to
influence how they're managed.
SENATOR ELTON said he wanted to comment, like Senator Lincoln did
on Mr. Pungowiyi, on Mr. Bruce Baker who is also a very honest
person and impressed him with his endeavors on behalf of the
people in Southeast Alaska on the management of brown bears on
the ABC Islands.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked Mr. Pruhs, in the short time he had been
there, whether he wanted to be reappointed to the Board of Game.
MR. PRUHS replied:
Absolutely. I've been there almost a year and it's
still a tremendous learning curve. I think it takes a
couple years for a board member to go through the
cycles and actually be able to get a handle on all the
issues…
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON said he would entertain a motion to forward
the names on to the Senate.
SENATOR WILKEN asked Carl Rosier, who he saw in the audience, if
the AOC had decided on this group of nominees as far as an
endorsement.
MR. CARL ROSIER, Vice President, AOC, said the vote at the annual
meeting was in support of Mr. Pruhs and no comment on the others.
SENATOR WILKEN moved to forward the names of Bruce Baker, Caleb
Pungowiyi, Michelle Sparck, George Matz and J. Dana Pruhs to the
full Senate for consideration. There were no objections and the
names were forwarded.
There being no further business to come before the committee
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON adjourned the meeting at 4:25 p.m.
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